Last week, we read an essay called "Women and Southern Religion," in which the author (a little too quickly) divides camps of scholarly focus into 1) what religion does to women and 2) what religion does for women. Too facile a dichotomy, many of us agreed in class. But that said, here were the clips I mentioned (a couple of which you watched) where, even in the name of progressive gender politics, people discuss "women" in limiting ways.
First, journalist (and great-great grandson of Charles Darwin) Matthew Chapman:
Then, popular author/journalist Christopher Hitches:
Lastly, non-fiction writer on science and religion, Sam Harris:
I think defining gender roles is the first step towards isolating an individual. I say isolating because books such as the Bible tend to "divide and conquer", leaving no room for interpretation. For example, suggesting that women should submit to their husbands, who in turn should "lead" in a respectful manner, is in my opinion the simplest form of degradation.
ReplyDeleteI think gender roles exist, plain and simple. Whether society suggests them or not, they occur naturally. Gender exists. Men and women are different, every research study, poll and simple observation shows it. I think we are fooling ourselves by pretending like everyone is some sort of neutrasex with no ingrained, natural sense of "role" or characteristics. Of course not every woman or man fits every stereotypical "role" designated to his or her gender either.
ReplyDeleteI have to first say, I think Matthew Chapman's statement at the end about feminist & God, is off base. He is neither a woman, a feminist, or a follower of God/Christ, so his statement lacks merit. Admittedly there are aspects of religion that appear to oppress women, but that is only if they allow it. I speak as feminist and Christian. Women have more power than they realize. And many feminist before have used their religion and relationship with God, to advance in life privately & publicly. Anyone can be oppressed or disadvantaged. But once they realize real truth, they have the power and the option to overcome or they can continue to submit to something that really has nothing to with God, but w/ men/patriarchy. As far as women & religion (Judaism, Islam, etc) in other countries, I can't speak for them. But the issues with honor killings, female genital mutilation, etc are issues that seem to have more to do with patriarchy & controlling women than religion. Those are worse and much sadder cases than what Christian women in America face. Its really sad. My heart & prayers goes out to them all.
ReplyDeleteI really do not know what to think of these men and what they say about women and religion. I am completely caught off guard and I think that for MEN to say this just plays into the patriarchal society we all still live in. I think that for many years now, many have tried to brake down the patriarchal barriers within society but not all have succeeded. I think that in many ways these barriers still exist and are somewhat stronger in some cases than they were before the "tearing down" began.
ReplyDeleteI do not think that these men are "correct" or "right" in what they have said, but I do think that in certain religions across the globe, people can see more evidence of what these men discuss. I do not think what they discuss is universal but I can see where it can be stretched to seem that way. I think that hearing and watching this along with some of the reading we have done in class, I can see how the discussion of gender in religion as an interesting topic.
chapman's words are what really hit me the most. In my opinion, the comparison of women to slaves really is so wrong in many ways. I can see how slaves living on a former plantation could be considered stockholm syndrome, but women are not being forced to believe in God like slaves are forced to stay on the planation. you can't MAKE someone believe something. You can just force them to practice certain things.
ReplyDeleteWhat one person thinks or feels about their role is, in some ways, totally irrelevant. I know exactly how I feel about gender relations. But just because I feel this way doesn't mean it'll have an impact on anyone else unless I present a credible argument against theirs.
ReplyDeleteStephanie is right. Gender roles do exist...because we let them. Once again, I'm not saying that it's wrong for someone to believe exactly what they want to believe. If women feel that this is what their "role" in life is supposed to be, then by all means... However, I think that many women don't really consider it. They are just used to the fact that men make more money, it's their job to raise the kids--whatever. No one steps back to take a look at the situation.
I'm not saying we're all the same. Yes, we are biologically different. Men are generally taller and stronger. Women think with logic and emotions, whereas men only think with logic. So what? Because of simple differences, women are to be submissive to men. No. Sorry, I'm going to get way to into this. I'll stop now...
Just going on the subject of Matthew Chapman, since his statement certainly seems to be the most incendiary, I agree with Reagan and Andy. I think it's interesting to look at what these MEN have to say on the topic of WOMEN and religion, especially when their comments are spurred from a society firmly grounded in patriarchal standards. Gender roles definitely exist, but they exist SOCIALLY because we've defined them over a very long period of time...
ReplyDeleteI took this class on human biodiversity and ethnic origins, and it's actually interesting how biologically similar men and women actually are; yes, women have the bigger hips and carry the babies, and yes, men generally have more testosterone which can make them more aggressive, but the epithets and stereotypical "behaviors" we ascribe to differentiate women and men are completely socially derived. Hence, we see the Western, patriarchal society emerge. Does this social, gender dichotomy develop naturally? I'm not exactly sure...but it certainly seems to.
I think religion, along with gender roles, can be seen as a similar social phenomena; it's just another aspect of human categorization. I don't think Chapman said "women still following religion is like a slave still living on the plantation" to COMPARE women and slaves, per se...I think he just meant that a socially recognizable group is being subjugated by potentially outdated societal norms...
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